The (Im)partial Church : Episode 17 | Pass the Ball
March 06, 2023
In this episode, we look at the ways sports offer key insights into living as the Body of Christ. Teamwork is key. It's important we know our roles and share the goal. We also explore why it's important to center the experiences of minority groups. If this conversation inspires further questions feel free to reach out to us at theimpartialchurch@lhm.org.
The (Im)partial Church
Episode 02-07-17
Professor Janine Bolling: Hey everyone! Welcome back. The past couple of episodes have been illuminating. To begin this season, we wanted to address some of the reasons why it is hard to agree on the partiality problem that we face in the church.
Rev. Dr. Gerard Bolling: We know that everyone has blind spots when it comes to seeing injustice. We don't always know who our neighbor is or trust them once we find out.
Janine: And our limited perspective often gets in the way of our ability to see objectively. Sometimes the world colors our view of others and prevents us from acting out our identity in Christ.
Gerard: And then sometimes things just don't seem urgent because we aren't experiencing any of the consequences ourselves.
Janine: The point is, we're all flawed. In the next portion of the podcast, we're going to take some time to consider some of the ways in which we fail to live as our Heavenly Father calls us to and seek a way forward.
Gerard: This is the reflection period of the podcast. We've already discussed how God's grace is sufficient. We've read about how often He uses conviction as a tool to help us grow. There is no need to fear condemnation because Christ took on our shame.
Janine: But again, this isn't an opportunity to rest on our laurels. We are the body of Christ, and as such, we have a calling to live differently than the world. Where the world is divisive, the church is decisive. We're unified by love, where they're driven by fear.
Gerard: That's right. And God's kingdom is made visible in our ability to exist as a unified people with diverse ways of worshiping Him. This is the part where each of us peek within ourselves and make an honest assessment. We prayerfully consider what God is calling to our attention. In which ways do each of us need to grow?
Janine: In this section of the podcast, we ask the question: Where do we go from here? But we're not in this alone. While each of us may struggle to address prejudice, apathy, ignorance, or a lack of follow-through in our own lives, we have this one thing in common: all of us have some work to do.
Gerard: And you have probably realized by now that we are in the habit of inviting friends along as guests while we figure all of this out.
Janine: So join us as we chart a path forward on this episode of The (Im)partial Church.
Gerard: Hey y'all. I'm Gerard.
Janine: And I'm Janine.
Gerard: I'm the big brother.
Janine: But I'm the older sister, and we're brother and sister in Christ.
Gerard: We grew up in Brooklyn, New York.
Janine: I'm still living in Brooklyn, but I serve in the Bronx.
Gerard: I'm a professor at Concordia University in Texas and a pastor at a congregation in St. Louis.
Janine: It's been said that Sunday morning is the most segregated time in America.
Gerard: Issues with race and culture still plague our communities and our churches.
Janine: But what can we do about it? Should we see color?
Gerard: Or be colorblind?
Janine: What's our responsibility in bringing about unity in our neighborhoods and in our church pews?
Gerard: It's a delicate topic, but one we must tackle with grace.
Janine: So pull up your chair to the table, as we bring Jesus to the center of this conversation of—
Gerard: The (Im)partial Church.
Gerard: So Janine, Lincoln. For everybody here, my son Lincoln is Janine's nephew, obviously. And Lincoln is learning to play baseball. He's a baseball guy. He loves baseball. He's a sports guy. I don't know where he got that from. Not me. Probably his grandparents—
Janine: He got that from his family members. Other people in the family like sports. Just not you.
Gerard: Yeah, a lot people in the family likes sports. They do, yeah. Yeah, you're a basketball person. And in a sport, when you're sporting and you're doing the athletics thing, I've come to learn as someone who looks at the athletics now, that teamwork is really, really important inside of that, right? And the contribution of other people and the way that that kind of coalitionally comes together is really important. And so my son, who's six years old, is starting to learn about this. But he's having a hard time at it. My son absolutely loves to be up to bat. He loves to be a batter. He thinks he's a St. Louis Cardinal. He'll spit on the ground, and he'll pretend chew gum, and he'll do all the turns and the twists and everything else of batting and running and all that stuff. But he absolutely hates to play on the field.
He just feels like it's boring. He wants to be doing something active. He wants to hit the ball. He doesn't want to play a lot of those other positions, but he's learning that you have to play all positions on a baseball team in order to learn about everything and to make things work, right? And in a sport kind of concept and an athletics concept, it's important to be able to support one another, in a sign of maturity almost, so that around the table, every single person is able to lift the other person up. And so it's been interesting to see my six-year-old son grapple with this concept that I think is really true for us today, you know?
Janine: Oh yeah. I talk to my students all the time about that dynamic of group work. Or really where you learn it, I always say, is between the arts or athletics. One of the games I remember, it kind of reminds me of last year, you know at OSL we have five different teams, and two of our teams went to championships last year and won. But probably the most significant one, the most significant one would be the 2022 Grind Session Champions, which is our national basketball team. They have games all the time. They were one of those schools that was open during COVID, so obviously that played into it. But they go out to the West Coast a lot to play. And the championships were in the West Coast last year, so they were in Arizona. We got to watch the games on TV and include lots of our OSL family and friends in there. And we got to see people kind of do what they did on the home court away. And one of the dynamics that I thought was really interesting to watch was just who was hot every night. On a team of really talented people, anybody could turn up on a Tuesday. And so what was happening in that playoff series was the one person who was used to being looked at to have that ball in his hand—he actually plays for Seton Hall now. His name is Jayquan Sanders. And everybody's looking at him to get him the ball at that time. But on that particular game for that particular night, he wasn't the one. And so he had to, as a good shooting guard, look around and see, who else can I pass to? So if my threes aren't hitting today, if my shot isn't hitting today, then who can I look to?
And so that's called "redistributing the ball." And so by doing that, that really transformed the game for them because of course when you have a star player, everybody's looking for them. That's where the defense goes. That's where the coaches are breaking the play on. But when you can pass and kick that out to somebody else, a big man, another shooting guard, anybody else on the team, that's when you really get that team basketball played. And really, what we find a lot at our school, a lot of our coaches have shared, is that that's what they learn here. A lot of people know how to do their individual thing, kind of like what you were speaking about, what we see with younger players where it's about me and I want to hit and I want to shoot and I want to score and I want to have the highlight reel, but what does it mean to play in an organized way, organized basketball, organized team sports? And that's when you learn all of those really difficult lessons that are really important to your development as a true athlete.
Gerard: Figuring out how to be a dynamic of one place and one space as a team, that's really what the church is. We're this one team where Jesus Christ is our Star Player, but we're one team that's working together. And then it also works to sort of like what's the culture dominance inside of the congregation as well? The hot players, they're the majority culture. They're who everybody sees or what people cater to sometimes. Or maybe when it's time to hand out a new uniform, you give it to them first or you give them the nicest things. And then sometimes it can feel like the minority culture are the ones that are not as seen. They're not as out there upfront, and they're kind of even maybe riding the bench. How do you allow effectively for somebody else to have a platform in that type of space, too? And what does properly, quote, "passing the ball" look like, I guess? And listening to other voices and respecting other talents on the team, what does that exactly, effectively look like?
Janine: My quick thought with this is I think that so often we talk about star player, hot player, that sort of thing. When we really look at anybody who's played any kind of organized team sport will know that doesn't work in the long term. So all those things that you do, any sport, but pick offense or defense, we say that offense can win a game, but defense is what's going to win you a championship. And you can't do defense with the ball in your hand because you don't have the ball in your hand on defense. But that's something that you need to do in order to make the game truly what it's created to be, to play the game, how it's meant to be played. And so when we think about the church and what that looks like, it's not that, oh, we're always trying to see who's the next star player, who's the next hot player, who's the next number one, who's the highlight reel? Who's the five star? But rather, what does being a team look like and what elements have our past saints really given for us?
When we talk about Jesus, and we think about what Jesus has been in the Bible, He's been all kinds of different players. He's the player that you need at the time is really it, right? So when we compare Him, we think sometimes maybe He is the person who is defending us when He is praying on our behalf like He talks about in John 17 in Jesus' High Priestly Prayer, right?
Gerard: Yeah.
Janine: He's giving us some serious spiritual defense at that time. Other times, He's taking over a game. Maybe I'm at the end of my rope and I've got to hand this over to God right now. And what does that look like? It looks like maybe I'm not touching the ball for five minutes, but I am setting the press break of my life. When we think about all these team and sports analogies, I think it's really easy to get into the weeds. But when we think about what our church is teaching as a body of Christ moving as one, as many, but moving as one, we think about what it means to be a real team, not what it means to be a player.
Gerard: Yeah. And I even think, as you're talking about what does it mean to be a real team, that just goes against what we feel about each other in the body of Christ. We often feel like the person who should be the most seen, is the person who's quote, "the most holy," when we know scripturally that that's not true. Jesus breaks that down for us many different times. And it also looks like being binded together by what Christ binds us together with, which is His love. And it reminds me of John 13:34 where Jesus says, "A new commandment I give unto you that you love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another." And it says, "By this, everyone will know that you are My disciples if you love one another." That's why it's so important for us to share the Gospel because it's this love that we're sharing with one another from Christ Himself, Christ to us, and then us to other people that is the thing that we're passing first and foremost.
Janine: And when you mentioned that verse, it kind of got me thinking too about the shared goal. When we look at verse 35, "By this, everyone will know that you are My disciples," so many times, I get that question as I teach theology to young people is like, "Well, everybody kind of has their thing that they wear that helps everybody to know who they are. They're like—
Gerard: What's their uniform look like?
Janine: You've got a hijab or you've got a yamaka or you have a mark of the faith with many of the major faiths of the world. But for Christians, how do people know that we're Christians? Well, it's certainly not by our clothes, unless you're in your church work garb if you're a deaconess or a pastor or something like that. But as an everyday person, how will people know? And God gives us this, it says that they will know by our love.
So when we talk about a shared goal, which is what a real team has, the goal of winning, get the "W" whether you're on the road or you're home. So when you have that shared goal, how do people know what you want to do? It's how you act. It's how you move. Are you distributing the ball in a game? Are you showing that you love each other so people know, okay, I see where that team is from. They must be Team Jesus, for lack of a better word. It's a little corny, but people know who you are by the way that you move. And so yeah, that John verse that you shared really got me thinking about that.
Gerard: Yeah. I even think back to ... so I got the pleasure of seeing some of Janine's players from her school sign to Division 1 schools, which is really cool. How often do you see that? So they have their signing day, and they're going to all these prestigious universities to play ball and then also to learn. And all of the players kept saying in their speeches of acceptance, they kept saying, "OSL is family (Our Savior Lutheran) OSL is family. There's a family feel of this." And they mentioned that family feeling of being a part of the body of Christ, too. And I thought that was a beautiful thing. And I even imagined to myself if I went to one of their games and I saw the way that they were interacting with one another as family. And one of the players even mentioned just the praying together beforehand. Other teams are watching, and it gives me chills as I say it, but other teams are watching the way that they play, and they're watching them circle up and pray together first and foremost before they play. And win, lose, or draw, they're walking in there with the love of Christ. Janine's like, "Hopefully win."
Janine: No draws. No draws.
Gerard: No draws, no draws. Walking in there with the love of Christ and being able to say, "Hey, we start out this time together, and this doesn't make our break us as far as our faith formation," is a beautiful thing. And that's so often what the world is like. Sometimes in youth group, we'll have kids say, "Well, pastor, how will people know me? How will they know that I'm a Christian?" It'll be by what you say and then also what you do, too. They'll say, "There's something different about Bob. There's something different about Raven. There's something different about Tom." There's something different in the way that they interact with the world. They're not selfish. They don't look for gain in this way or that way. Quite literally, they will know we are Christians by our love. Reminds me of that old Sunday school song. Do you remember that song that we used to sing?
Janine: Yes, Pastor Nordine taught us that song.
Gerard: Pastor Nordine. These are classics.
Janine: They will know we are Christians. "We are one in the Spirit, we are one in the Lord."
Gerard: "We are one in the Spirit, we are one in the Lord."
Janine: It's in one of these hymnals out here.
Gerard: One of these hymnals, one of these hymnals.
Janine: But way bigger than that, way, way, way bigger than that, or really way smaller than that, way more internal than that, is knowing our role in sharing a goal when we're talking about what we talk about specifically on this podcast. When you think about what our goal is, right? Oftentimes, we're asked, "What is the point of all this?" When we talk about racial diversity in the church or the lack thereof, or there's too much or there's too little, or I don't understand how to do this or that, what is the point? And that's where we go back to that point of what it means to be on a team together. We know that as Christians in this world, we'll face trouble. Jesus told us that. And so what we are fighting against is not against flesh and blood, but against—
Gerard: Principalities.
Janine: Principalities, those things of the spiritual world. And so we're on a team against—really, when we think about it in a huge way, we're on a team against—evil. And when we look at sin, and we know that sin is definitely an example of people falling into evil and just the turmoil and the ongoing destruction it creates in our lives, when we think about fighting against that in the specific sin of racism, we understand that we have a role to play on that team. So going all the way back to that baseball analogy of Lincoln loving to hit, maybe not so much on the field, but definitely will gain an appreciation for it because that's how you get your stats, which he'll figure that out as he gets older, we have to understand what we're doing in our role when it comes back to, in this fight against racism in our country, against letting it take over in our church, against letting it be a negative force in our life in a way that destroys us. Because it's a negative force in everyone's life, but in a way that destroys something or consumes something, is really where we find a danger in the church.
Gerard: Yeah, and I think that the really important thing when you're thinking of the racial dynamic is it is a de-platforming of one group in order to platform another group. And I mean that in the kindness and nicest way, but the dominant culture has to position themselves to say, "Hey, we're going to allow for this other group that's a non-dominant group to have this platform. We're going to, quote, 'pass the ball' to this other group of people so that they get a chance to speak." And the hardest part of that is not actually passing the ball or giving the platform, but listening afterward or seeing what happens in the play afterward. You have to position yourself to say, "Hey, I'm not going to be a part of the way that this has run up to the top." And I have to stop using the sports analogy because I just don't watch them enough to do it. I just don't. But what I do know is that ... Let it be known.
Janine: I do know that one analogy that you know because what you're talking about reminds me of Philippians 2. So would you say that de-platforming one group and platforming another, as you put it, would be giving up your own interests? Would you classify it as that?
Gerard: Yes, it is. It is.
Janine: Okay, so let me read from—
Gerard: In the interest of others, you're putting those first.
Janine: Okay, you know what verse I'm talking about. So from Philippians 2, right?
Gerard: Yeah, I know the Bible.
Janine: You do know the Bible sometimes, Pastor Bolling. "Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility, consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others." And then it says why. And this is because—
Gerard: For the he building of—
Janine: Because Christ made Himself nothing, taking on the very nature of a Servant being made in human likeness. And so when we think about our own interests, when we think about our own stat sheet to use the sports analogy, when we think about who I want to hear talking, it's me, me, me, me, me. When we think about what it's like to play sports as a child, it's me, me, me, me, me. I want to touch the ball. I want coach's attention. I want everybody to cheer for me.
But when you start looking to the interests of others, what we call that in basketball, it'll be a "pass first point guard," that's a person who looks to the greater goal, to the interests of the team. And this is not something that ultimately puts them at a detriment. Because again, that shared goal is coming out with a "W." So as long as you have the win in your column, you didn't lose anything. You didn't lose anything by passing the ball because you're still on that winning team. When we think about that in the body of Christ, you don't lose anything by looking at other people's interests. Okay? You don't lose anything of yourself in doing that. All you do is gain more people who understand what it's like to be a part of the body of Christ, to fully understand that here on earth, and make God's kingdom known as we wait for life on the other side.
Gerard: Amen. I agree. And that Scripture even reminds me of 1 Corinthians 1:12-26. It's a long one, but it relates to sort of the body of Christ kind of analogy that we've been begging back to over and over again. It says, "For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For in one spirit we were all baptized into one body, Jews or Greeks, slaves or free, and all were made to drink of one spirit. For the body does not consist of one member, but of many. If the foot should say, 'Because I am not a hand, I do not belong to the body,' that would not make it any less part of the body. And if the ears should say, 'Because I am not an eye, I do not belong to the body,' that would not make it any less part of the body. If the whole body were an eye, where would be the sense of hearing? If the whole body were an ear, where would be the sense of smell?
"But as it is, God arranged the members of the body, each one of them, as He chose. If all were a single member, where would the body be? As it is, there are many parts, yet one body. The eye cannot say to the hand, 'I have no need of you,' nor again, the head to the feet, 'I have no need of you.' On the contrary, the parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and on those parts of the body that we think less honorable, we bestow the greater honor. And our unpresentable parts are treated with greater modesty, which our presentable parts do not require. But God has so composed the body giving greater honor to the part that lacked it, that there may be no division in the body, but that the members may have the same care for one another. If one member suffers, all suffer together. If one member is honored, all rejoice together."
This passage is such a goodie. First of all, I got to start at the beginning. Janine, you know how I feel about 12-13, right? Do you know how I feel about those two verses? The reason why I feel this way about those two verses is this: okay, and I'm going to break it down for our listeners.
Janine. Uh huh.
Gerald: You got the apostle Paul who's the writer of the book of Corinthians here. The apostle Paul is breaking down, from one spirit we were all baptized into one body: Jews or Greeks, slaves or free, we were all made to drink of the same spirit. You also have the apostle Paul linking together groups of people who are traditionally held in opposition to one another. At this time, it's a time in history where in the temple there's a specific way that people sit in order to worship, even amongst people who were Jews. I mean, the Jews would sit in such a way where the most important people sat up front, the Levitical folks, and then behind them sat even more important people within the community. Behind them sat commoners who were male, and then behind them sat the animals, and then behind the animals sat women and children.
So you've got this great separation to which Paul even writes about, there is no distinction. We don't need to be separated in this way anymore because we're all baptized into one body. And even further in other bodies of the Scripture that Paul writes he's making a distinction that there's no Jew or Greek, slave or free, and then no male or female. He's making all of these distinctions to say that no matter who you are, you belong here within the body of Christ. And it's a beautiful thing to think of that. We need to think more about that when it comes to the way that culture is mixed together, too. I mean, Michael Jackson said it best, "Don't matter if you're black or white," if you're thinking about that. But what I mean by that is we recognize that those groups are different. But just because we're different doesn't mean that we ignore that part of ourselves. But instead, we allow this sort of de-platforming to say, "Teach me about what it means to be this. Teach me about what it means to be that." And there's this equal exchange back and forth.
Janine: But we think about different ethnic groups. We're not just finding out about them for the sake of finding out about them, but they actually enrichen our faith. And so I really experience this a lot when learning about different groups and how they worship, just what their worship looks like. Some kids got in trouble last year in chapel, honestly, and I'll tell you that story. And really what it was was the way that they were ... our kids like to get down in chapel, for lack of a better word, and you wouldn't believe the way that they can do to these songs out here. I'm talking "A Mighty Fortress" get down. So what was explained is that the way that they celebrate in their culture is by dancing—like if you're not dancing, basically you're not excited to be here. Not that they're criticizing your praise of God, but that that's the number one expression of it.
So a lot of our students are from different countries in Africa, for example, or even our students from around, from around New York City. New York City has a strong dance culture as well. And when you hear music, you want to start moving. So different ethnic groups can teach us about what it looks like to be in worship together. So different ways of expression, I think, are a really big way to see that. Beyond that is praying in one's language. So when we talk about different ethnic groups, one of the things we experience here a lot in our district is getting to hear prayers in different languages and getting to see that a person is almost a different person than the language that they speak in. So the way that they talk, their demeanor changes, their tone and everything.
And so when we think about applying this, not one group is better than another and learn from one another, what we also hear is how to connect with God in a different way, too. Because we also share that core of being a created being from the number one Creator of God in heaven. So God our Father created us in different ways to express ourselves, and how do we know that somebody else out there isn't also expressing in that same way with us? When you find that in worship, that's a really beautiful thing, too.
Gerard: I think it's an awesome thing. The expressive pieces are all going to be different too, depending on people group. The way that one people group chooses to express or emote is going to be different than the way another people group chooses to express or emote. And it's okay to learn about all different types and all different kinds. I think that that reading that is from the book of 1 Corinthians also is just indicative of different backgrounds. I really love that because I think that it's teaching you, sort of these siloed pieces, of what it means to be a certain part or a certain member. So I love these little conversations that that's brought up of the body talking to itself saying, "Whoa, I'm the foot. And if I'm not like a hand then I'm not part of the body." Or the ear saying, "If I'm not an eye, then I'm not anything." You know what I mean? I love this little conversation back and forth of what Paul has sort of identified as opposite features to say different things.
And I even think of it on the other side. What if the foot is also saying, "The hand gets to touch all this stuff and gets to experience all this stuff, and I don't get to experience that. I just have the road below me that I have to constantly pound." But then again, the hand could think grass is greener because the hand's like, "I've got to touch all this gross stuff and always be on, but I wish I was just the foot experiencing what it was like to go places." There's this sort of opposite nature of communication within there that I imagine as I'm reading that little section and those body parts are talking to each other.
Janine: Absolutely. Yeah, and when we think about that just inside of what we are living our faith out as Christians, we think about what it looks like to lift up those other body parts or to really highlight them, to make them feel wanted and needed. Obviously, we know we need everything in our body, but it's almost like you don't know how much you use something until it's hurt. Have you ever hurt your pinky toe?
Gerard: Yes.
Janine: That will ruin your day for a few ... that will ruin a couple of days, actually, getting that little cut under there. So when we think about what it looks like to honor or to bring up or to edify or to really show others in the church what minorities are doing in our Lutheran Church body, we do have a little bit of a different dynamic. So we have a mostly white church body, but we do have minorities within Lutheranism, right? When we think about what does it look like to have people in church and not just be there but also belong there, that's what we're really thinking of when we talk about the body of Christ. How do we respect someone who is an ear, so to speak? So, they done hear it all, but maybe they haven't seen. So you as the eye must be like the person who goes, "Look, I want to show you. I don't just want you to hear about it. I want to show you. I want you to see, so here's how I can go with you to help that experience to happen."
Because there's parts of the body of Christ that can reach places that others can't. And that's what I really think about when I think about ministry. When I think about what it means to be God's people in this world and touching those lives. The lived experiences of other people often put them at a distance. A lot of our lived experience can cause us to feel separated if we've experienced something negative that maybe other people have not. Perhaps you've never been called a racial slur, you don't know what that's like. But for people who have and for people who understand what that feeling is right after or going back to the location that you were the next day, going back into that party, going back to that workplace, going back to that school, going back to that class after experiencing something like that, there's only a few people who are going to be able to relate. And that's what I think when I think about the body of Christ. It says, "Hey, I may not be a hand, but I'm a forearm, and I kind of have been hearing and seeing, and—"
Gerard: Sometimes we think grass is greener, and then also just sometimes we quite literally just don't know what it's like to be the other thing or to be another racial or cultural group at all, whatsoever. And sometimes hearing those stories or hearing the experiences, you know, I love the holidays because the holidays is such a natural time of sharing to deplatform yourself and to platform somebody else to hear what kind of stuff do you cook on Thanksgiving and why? I remember growing up and being at church and discovering that curry and roti were something that was cooked by a community that was different than mine for Thanksgiving as their meal. It's not Turkey and ham. You may also see that soul food is cooked in one household, and then in another household you have more of these traditional meals that are cooked and et cetera, so forth. And I know it's just superficial on one level and it's food, but it's also cultural where you get to see what other people are doing in their households.
If we can just take that and sort of bottle it up and apply it over and against what it means to be another cultural group, even as members of the same church or the same church body, I think it would be a beautiful thing. And then how do we honor minorities within the church too as well? How do we honor voices that don't really look like us in the church so that we can see what they see and hear what they hear? Again, I don't want to shortchange that ear. But we want to be able to see what they see, hear what they hear. So how do we do that, and how do we respect lived experience to the point where we're sitting there and we're ready to listen as well?
Janine: I think it's an important question to ask, and one of the things that I see often it has the temptation or the propensity to become trite, to become let's have a potluck, let's have an event where we're going to showcase that we do care, and we do see, and we do like minorities. And then after that event is over we're going to done with that for the quarter, and then we've got to do something else, probably, mid-year. Right? And so, that is something where you're devoting the time, you're ironing that out there, so that you have it available. But what we really want to think about is that true belonging that we talk so much about on this podcast. Right? Not that I am part of a one-time thing, or it's this day, right, so now we can do it: it's Black history month, so let's talk about Black stuff at church. Rather, let's do it the entire time because Blach history is American history. Or let's talk about the entire time instead of waiting for the special day where we honor our heroes, when we think about minorities, not just racial minorities, but like we just had Veterans Day, right? And so when we think about what these people are like in our congregations every other day, they're still experiencing the same thing, it's just not a day named after them.
Gerald: Yeah.
Janine: And so when we think about minorities, so often like I said, it can be tempting to go into that mode of being trite, being a one day, being a one time, being a isolated event. Whereas when we think about what it means to have life together, the koinonia that we are seeking, it would require that we remember those things on each and every day, in all kinds of events and at locations, publications, social media, including for the reality of it all, not just for the optics.
Gerard: Yeah. Man, for the reality of it, and not just for the optics. That's bars right there because we have to be able to do something for the authentic reasoning of wanting to learn and wanting to grow, not just for how it looks. It's the whole idea of kissing babies and hugging people. You're doing it just for the way that it looks, and we don't want to do that. And so it's acknowledging the contribution of somebody else and then saying thank you, right, and then taking it in and continuing to listen and to continue to internalize it and see about what that means as you do this sort of internal dialogue with yourself on what you've just heard.
Janine: When we're thinking about it, knowing our role in sharing the goal, the goal is the "W" in sports. And the goal for us as people who are already Christian, is to invite others into that body and to help them to understand the fullness of what God has done, sending His Son to die for our sins, rising, and then being able to send the Holy Spirit and help us with our everyday lives here. Because we know earth is full of problems, but it's also full of opportunities to overcome those problems with God's help. And so when we think about our shared goal in bringing others to Christ, we think about what we need to change as people on that team. Maybe some of us need to grow in an area; maybe some of us need to tone down; maybe some of us are shifting into a different role because just where we're at in life. But all of those things come together in that one goal of bringing Christ to the nations and the nations to Christ, right?
Gerard: Amen. Yeah, it's a beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing. Well, I mean, what an exciting episode. We covered a lot of ground here. And in this next episode we're going to talk a little bit more about leaning into and a little bit more about trusting the voice and experiences of different minority groups and communities and just being able to share perspective as a step in the right direction. And again, that de-platforming to platform that language will come in handy for that, too. I'm so excited to bring you guys that next episode.