The (Im)partial Church : Episode 16 | Agree on the Problem - Part 2
February 27, 2023
Gerard and Janine continue to explore the reasons why people are unconcerned about partiality in the church and society. They share some of their own experiences and consider some potential solutions. If this conversation inspires further questions feel free to reach out to us at theimpartialchurch@lhm.org.
The (Im)partial Church
Episode 02-06-16
Professor Janine Bolling: Hello, hello, hello. We are back again with another episode of The (Im)partial Church.
Rev. Dr. Gerard Bolling: Yes. Hello everybody. Well, let's see. Where did we leave off last time, Janine?
Janine: Well, we discussed the first three reasons why it's hard to agree on the problem. And these three reasons were our inability to see the problem clearly, to discern the needs of our brothers and sisters in Christ, our inability to discern who our neighbors are. And then lastly, we talked about our lack of trust in the lived experiences of our fellow church members and human beings.
Gerard: Dang, that was a lot.
Janine: Yeah. And honestly, that was just the beginning. That was the tip of the iceberg. And now we're going to do it all over again. It turns out that we are all kinds of hot messes at behaving like Christ. So for the whole all-of-us-have-sinned thing, everybody's hand should be up in the air. Because like our friends from Barna point out, the only way to move forward is to own this story.
Gerard: It's important to really, really think through that. And as per usual, we realize that God's grace is waiting for us here. Psalm 51:17 puts it this way. "My sacrifice, O God, is a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart You, God, will not despise."
Janine: And this verse is attributed to King David, and we've talked about King David before on this very podcast. He knows that his contrition pleases God. And we'll expand on that a little bit later. But first, intro.
Gerard: Hey y'all. I'm Gerard.
Janine: And I'm Janine.
Gerard: I'm the big brother.
Janine: But I'm the older sister, and we are brother and sister in Christ.
Gerard: We grew up in Brooklyn, New York.
Janine: I'm still living in Brooklyn, but I serve in the Bronx.
Gerard: I'm a professor at Concordia University in Texas and a pastor at a congregation in St. Louis.
Janine: It's been said Sunday morning is the most segregated time in America.
Gerard: Issues with race and cultures still plague our communities and our churches.
Janine: But what can we do about it? Should we see color?
Gerard: Or be colorblind?
Janine: What's our responsibility in bringing about unity in our neighborhoods and in our church pews?
Gerard: It's a delicate topic, but one we must tackle with grace.
Janine: So, pull up your chair to the table as we bring Jesus to the center of this conversation of—
Gerard: The (Im)partial Church. We are certainly going to get into what we were just talking about, but this episode kind of picks up where the last one left off. It turns out that there are a few more reasons that muddy the waters of reconciliation work.
Janine: Yeah. This conversation was full of new insights. Remember when we said that this study was thorough? Well, get ready. The findings go even deeper still.
Gerard: Let's hear from Brooke again. She says the "Beyond Diversity" survey reveals that we are not necessarily seeking to understand and shares how the Old Testament prophets give us a lesson about biblical justice. We can take some cues about how to apply Scripture to change the way we think about others and help bring about racial justice.
Brooke: Think about how much time people are spending consuming news versus consuming Scripture. What's discipling them? The media. And so, the point of that is not to vilify the media. The point is to say: Are we using our own heads? Are we just accepting a narrative? Are we filtering this through our lens of like, "Is this what Scripture says?" or are we just listening to the narrative and buying it, right? And so I think both of those come down to have we taken the time to really understand? Have we sought out information from a posture of wanting to know? Not wanting to defend our own beliefs or to justify our own actions, but really being curious of wanting to know. And I think that's really at the core of the disconnect.
Honestly, some of my best learnings about this whole concept of what biblical justice is comes from the minor prophets. For sure, Isaiah and Jeremiah, start there. But then you keep going through those minor prophets and you just see, oh my goodness. And that really turned my heart when I read through that, and I'm like I might be one of these people—people who've had an opportunity to have access to resources, access to opportunities, and maybe I haven't thought about what that looks like to my brother next to me. Maybe I've disadvantaged my brother next to me not knowing.
It gives us a framework for examining our own hearts and the world that we live in, and how those injustices might be playing out. Repeatedly, we'll review Scriptures and people will go, "Yep, I believe that." But it's in learning to apply those Scriptures to these specific issues of racial justice that we break down. So really at the core of this, this is a discipleship issue. I don't know if that's hopeful. I think it's a way forward. It's encouraging that you will see alignment in our faith. You will see an alignment in our theology, but how do we then take that Scripture and live it out? And how do we change our hearts to see things in the way that God sees them? That's the hard work of discipleship.
Janine: And there is some people who took on the challenge of doing the humble and sacrificial work of racial reconciliation. Now, the outcome isn't always great. Why? Because perhaps they don't feel the personal impact. Brooke believes regardless of our individual experiences that God is calling us to engage in the work of building biblical community.
Brooke: There's a group of Christians who said, "Yes, I'm motivated to get involved in this," but that group of White Christians is very small. That group of people of color is much larger. And basically it's like where does the injustice sit? Well, if the injustice is affecting me every day, I'm pretty motivated to get involved. But if the injustice isn't affecting me, it's not part of my everyday life, I don't see it, I'm not confronted with it personally every day, I'm not very motivated. I'm focused on what matters to me. There's a little bit of that that's like it's human nature. We do what's urgent and what's in front of us. And so if something's not a threat to us, that's just how we're designed. We're designed to respond to a threat. If it's not a threat, we're not going to take action.
But as Christians, we're called a lot more than that. We're called to bring about God's kingdom here on this earth. What does that look like? That looks like addressing where someone has been wronged, mistreated, or is not being treated fairly or doesn't have an opportunity. And we champion some of those causes, but this one's not being championed. We look at that data and we say there's a lot that White Christians have to learn from the way Christians of color, and especially Black Christians, have really held up the mantle and brought about change through a beautiful lens of Scripture. It's never compartmentalized. It's like "No, no. We believe this is what God has called us to. We believe this is what God calls all of us to. We're going to lead that charge." White Christians have a lot to learn from that.
They have a lot to learn from the practice of lament, of recognizing when things are hard and wrong and unjust, and knowing how to just sit in that and be sad for the reality of our broken world. And then also for that repentance, and then moving forward to "All right, what can we do about it?" God's called us to speak up and He's called us to reach out in kindness. And what does that look like for me in the place that I'm in? And what does it look like for us as a community?
Gerard: Speak up and reach out. I like that. But what do we do when our own interests don't line up with God's concerns? That is yet another reason why reconciliation work is so tough. As people, we're always trying to make sure that justice is served. And often, we based that decision on the impact of harm that is done. But Scripture is clear that ours is a God that isn't solely concerned with impact. He's also concerned with intent.
Janine: Would you say that this kind of God is also concerned with our hearts?
Gerard: Amen. I sure do.
Janine: Okay.
Gerard: I sure do think so.
Janine: Okay, then there's something for you in Psalm 44. Psalms 44:21 says, "Would not God find this out? For He knows the secrets of the heart." God said you thought you was hiding but what's done in the dark, it's going to come to the light.
Gerard: It's coming to the light. Yes.
Janine: And then, Proverbs 21:2 says, "Every man's way is right in his own eyes, but the Lord weighs the hearts." And then, finally, because you know you always have to do three. Why do we do three, Gerard? Why do we do three?
Gerard: It's the rule of threes.
Janine: It's the rule of threes.
Gerard: Things come and better with threes.
Janine: Trinity, right?
Gerard: Three is a number of completion.
Janine: Three. Matthew 9:4. "And Jesus, knowing their thoughts said, 'Why are you thinking evil in your hearts?'" And this is just a tiny sampling. This is a flight. You know when you go to Friday's and you get the sampler? This is just the mozzarella sticks, a tiny, little sampling of the times that Scripture references God knowing your heart. God's knowledge of our complete hearts, of our thoughts, of our deepest secrets, and of our inner workings—God knows those things.
Gerard: Amen. And you know what? This only matters to us if we trust what the Scripture says. And this leads us to the next reason why it's challenging to agree on the problem. Number four, our lack of faith on scriptural authority.
Janine: And we all know that God's Word is one of the ways that we hear from Him. And as Christians, we recognize that Scripture lives for us to guide our actions. I remember that little analogy from when you're a kid. Anybody, Lutheran school, stand up. Other Christian schools that aren't Lutheran, sit down. No, I'm just kidding. Everybody stand up. The Bible stands for Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth, right? We recognize that Scripture is supposed to be guiding our actions. In the LCMS, we would even say that Scripture is inerrant, aka doesn't have mistakes. In fact, it doesn't even have grammatical mistakes. It doesn't have any mistakes.
Gerard: No. You see, what we believe is that there's two parts of the Scripture. There's the Law and the Gospel. And the purpose of the Law is to curb, to mirror, and to guide. And then, the purpose of the Gospel is to motivate. And we believe that in each and every word of scripture, you see the Law and Gospel at work simultaneously. In fact, in 2 Timothy 3:16-17, it puts it this way. "All Scripture is God-briefed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work."
You see the Law at work there and what it does within us, right? But you also see the Gospel in the motivation of what happens next. The trust in Scripture is important, too. It's important to think through the interests of our own neighbors as it's defined in accordance with God's will. Oftentimes, we think of our will or the will that we would have for something more than we think of God's will. But if we think of God's will, maybe we'd see our neighbor reflected within it, right, rather than just seeing the stuff that we kind of like or the things that we would want to do.
Janine: Absolutely, because God has a different vision on people. So when we think about seeking God's will and serving our neighbor on the journey and seeking that, that's where He's really putting us on. That's where if you think about putting on your night vision, God's seeing everything. When He asks you to, "Follow Me, to do what I do, to use My Word in this way, to live your life in this way," it's because He's got a bigger plan that includes people besides you. Too often, I know you've definitely used this analogy before, we treat Scripture like Tylenol. When you have a headache, "Give me a Tylenol." Really, for me, "Give me an Advil." But give me a pain reliever so that this can go away. You know what? I feel sad today. Give me a Psalm or something. Give me a Psalm or something. But we should be treating it or, and we should be treating it—definitely run to the Lord in your time of trouble. But absolutely always treat it like a vitamin. So a vitamin—you take it. Every single day.
Gerard: Yes. Single Day.
Janine: Is it FDA-approved? We don't know. We take it every single day.
Gerard: Not sure. It's a gummy. What's in the gummy? Nobody knows but—
Janine: It's going to improve our lives. When you're doing something every single day, it is a part of you. When you're doing something every single day, it is a habit. When you're doing something every single day, you can recall it in times of need. So that you're not running to the cabinet for a Tylenol, but you're saying, "I have a strength that sustains me, a love that burns throughout my life. A love and compassion and care for other people who are in front of me. Not because I think that no one is taking care of me, but because God is taking care of me so well that I continue to do that for others out of love for Him."
Gerard: And it makes me think too, instead of trying to take the thing that takes the pain away immediately, like an Advil or Tylenol, when we take the vitamin, the vitamin's working over time. It has calcium in it. My bones are getting stronger so that I don't break it or sprain it in the first place. It has vitamin D in it so that my skin is getting healthier so that when I cut it may not cut as deep over time. It has all these different things that we're to take daily. And the Scriptures are open and available for us to search on a daily, hourly, by-minute basis for what God would will for us. And you see, what if we all lived our lives like this, like the Bible was the Word of God, which it is, right? What else could even come close to the counsel that the Scriptures could give us? What else could even come close to something that's that worthy to follow?
Janine: Absolutely. And when you think of how this verse starts off from 2 Timothy, "All Scripture is God-breathed," you think of the very breath of God being inside of the words of Scripture.
Gerard: This is what's next for us today. Something that's not just in our own head, but something that Christ has already walked with before us. And so, we have confidence in this as well. We're just glad that Jesus is on our team because we know He's the star player. We're just glad that we have the Scriptures to lead us in that way, and we just follow that lead. Our lack of competence leads us to a great sense of confidence in that way because of who Jesus is.
Janine: I love that. Have you ever noticed when Jesus calls His disciples, He tells them to follow Him? When we think about being the star player or being the player that somebody builds a franchise around, if you're into athletics, Jesus asks His disciples to follow Him. He doesn't ask us to qualify His words. He doesn't even ask them to fully comprehend who He is or what He is saying. He tells them, "Follow Me." "Get Me the ball. We're going to iso." That's Jesus sometimes, but He's not forgetting about the rest of the team. He's like, "Just get Me the ball." He's asking His disciples to just do as He says and does.
Gerard: Yes. Amen. Amen.
Janine: We often lack confidence in our ability. We run away. We say, "Can this be handled by someone else? Is there someone else in the organization who can deal with this? Aren't there some church ladies who know about all this stuff? Isn't this a so-and-so issue?" We try to as shirk those duties, but let's be real for a second. Let's be for real. Racial reconciliation is hard work, and the issues that we are dealing with did not happen overnight. A lot of people want to believe they started in 2020, but we know it's been going on for a long time. This stuff is ingrained in certain levels of our society. Some of us understand that it's going to take time; it's going to take effort to sort through.
And a lot of times when people say it's going to take time, like "You know what? Give me a week. I'll get back to that email." It's not one of those things. It's a realistic respect for the problem that it will take time and energy to work through, to sort through. And here's the rub. The people who are responsible for making that change are seated in the pews, across this country. And unfortunately, there's only one way to solve the problem. It's kind of like how the politicians literally roll up their hands when they want you to, they give you a little roll up of the sleeves with the speech. That means they're trying to get their hands dirty. But, we realistically have to get our hands dirty. The people in the pews have to get their hands dirty to make time to address all these issues.
Gerard: Yeah. Remember Adam Grant that we talked about earlier? In his book, Think Again, he discusses something called "imposter syndrome." For those of you that have never heard of it, imposter syndrome is a condition where a person feels ill-equipped or underqualified for the position or task they find themselves in. Grant seems to have a solution for the doubts that we feel. Grant's answer was humility. He noted that, and this is what he said. "In high school, students who admit that they don't know something are rated by teachers as learning more effectively and by peers as contributing more on their team."
Janine: When I think about the student who comes to me with a question, the student who comes to me, "You were talking a lot, and I don't know what you said." There were people who have said this to me. I said, "I was talking for such a long time. When did you check out? When did you check out?
Gerard: When? When did leave the hotel?
Janine: And they're like, "Remember that time that you told us that you were from Brooklyn? Yeah, I started thinking about Brooklyn stuff." And I'm like, "Okay, that was ten minutes ago." But I appreciate the humility. I appreciate admitting the lack of knowledge, appreciating, "I checked out and I'm trying to check back in." Right?
Gerard: Yes, yes, or "I don't know something."
Janine: "I don't know."
Gerard: "I just don't know."
Janine: I didn't know that that's what that was called. I didn't know about this people group. I didn't know that the Bible had that in it. What does Adam Grant think about why we struggle with humility so much?
Gerard: He says that people can be consumed by the inferiority complex. In other words, we just don't want to feel bad about ourselves. But, what if there was a formula that could cure this? Something like confidence in who God is plus confidence in our identity in Him minus our sinful nature and limited perspective equals confident humility.
Janine: See, that I think could work because now the math problem's coming together. Now, it's coming together. And with confident humility, we don't always have to have the answer immediately. I had really good advice from a professor in college that you may have had. Also, this same professor, he goes by the name of Dr. Gary Bertels.
Gerard: Dr. Bertels. Love it. Love him.
Janine: Dr. Bertels would say, "As a future church worker, you need to add these three words to your vocabulary. 'I don't know.'" What is the answer to the question of the Odyssey? "I don't know." Okay, there are things that God knows, but it's the Odyssey.
Gerard: What is the Odyssey?
Janine: What is the Odyssey? Okay, we're not going to go back to that class. Great class though. In answering about "I don't know," it gives us comfort in our own ability to be humble. We can ask questions and we can learn. And this is something that we need to do as the body of Christ to grow in our faith and to also grow in love with one another.
Gerard: Absolutely. And this is what Micah 6:8 says about this. It says, "He, God, has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God." Oh, that slaps each and every time that I hear it. It helps me think through a few things. We're mortal, we're fallible, we make mistakes, and we're human. What we could give is not much in the scheme of things. It also helps me to think through that in the context of Micah acting in fairness and not seeking vengeance and walking humbly with God, this is opposite to what the people at that time wanted to do. But this is what God calls us to do, is the opposite thing. And the Lord wants from us to have this level of humility.
And also, with humility comes trust, just like your student comes to you and says, "I didn't understand this assignment," or "Executive Director Janine, I made this mistake and I don't know what to do about it." With humility comes trust because they trust you enough to be able to admit something. And that's what God wants from us. Trust and putting our trust in God Most High to be able to give us the deliverables that we need, and to treat us in the way that we still don't deserve but with grace and mercy bringing about His peace. That He still establishes the works of our hands, as it says in the Scriptures, too. And that brings us to our final point. The final issue is that we often face this one seeing racial reconciliation; it's this sort of lack of urgency due to a lack of shared experiences. The Galatians text speaks to that. Doesn't it, Janine?
Janine: Yes. Galatians 6:2. It says in that verse, "Bear one another's burdens and so fulfill the law of Christ." And when we think about what it means to bear one another's burdens, it is unreal. If you've ever had to carry someone's stuff who couldn't carry their stuff, all my hikers out there. I myself am not a hiker, but the Bronx has many hills, too many hills. And when you are carrying someone else's burdens or bearing one another's burdens, as it says in Galatians, you are sharing in their lived experiences. So many times we're thinking of burdens as physical, but those of us who are in the church, those of us who have walked with God know that those burdens are often mental. Those burdens are often emotional. Those burdens are often experiences that have happened to us.
And when we think about trusting another person's lived experiences, yes, they could lie to you. They could make up a whole cockamamie story, as they used to say back when I was in school. But it could also be the truth. And when we think about the lived experiences that some of us have experienced just right here in our own church body, what it means to constantly have to work against different cultural groups that are butting up against one another, what it means to bear the burden of someone who has traveled to this country for the first time with no English, what it means to bear the burdens of someone who has traveled to this country for the first time with lots of English, but not the kind of English that we speak over here. If you've helped anybody learn a new language, learn a new culture, that's one experience that I know in my own life I've seen. Wow, this is really not the same. When we think about church workers, we're meant to sharpen the work of the church, but not to do all of it.
Gerard: And that's the really important thing, because Christ has high expectations for us. In John 15:12, it says, "This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends. You are My friends if you do what I command you. No longer will I call you servants, for the servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all that I have heard from My Father I have made known to you."
Janine: Wow. Well, there you have it. These past two episodes have been chock full of reflection on who God is calling us to be and why. It's sometimes challenging to live that out. Maybe you saw yourself in some of the topics we discussed, but don't be discouraged. When we error, God offers us grace. And as Christians, we look to God's Word to guide our way.
Gerard: Hopefully, these past few episodes have served as a sort of diagnosis. Like we said at the beginning of this episode, Scripture acts as a mirror. None of these things we've mentioned are new to God. God knows we're shortsighted. God knows that we're sometimes fearful. God knows that we're mistrusting, but most of all, God knows that we're sinful, and He promises to be with us still. We're not in this alone.
Janine: And that's good news. Maybe you're wondering, where do we go from here? And if that's you, just wait. There is hope for the future. Fear not, that's coming up next on this season of The (Im)partial Church.