The (Im)partial Church : Episode 13 | Understanding the Process
February 06, 2023
Special guest alert! Pastor JT Thomas has been working in reconciliation for nearly two decades. He runs an organization called Civil Righteousness. Its mission is to equip churches to begin reconciliation work in a God-fearing way. His expertise will be a guide for our own contexts. If this conversation inspires further questions feel free to reach out to us at theimpartialchurch@lhm.org.
The (Im)partial Church
Episode 02-03-13
Pastor J. T. Thomas: The church should be, if any space in the world, the body of Christ should be the place where we can get raw; we can get real; we can have really tough conversations; we can be confronted; we can allow the Word of God to correct us. It should be a place where we can actually come and get offended, but know that the Bible doesn't allow us to stay offended.
Rev. Dr. Gerard Bolling: You just heard Pastor J. T. Thomas. He's a Christian thought leader in the racial reconciliation space. He's also the founder and president of Civil Righteousness, a group that helps churches cultivate spaces that center God in this conversation. He and his organization are committed to serving God, to bring about God's vision for his multiethnic church. We sat down with Pastor J. T. Thomas in order to pick his brain about what he's learned, what he's seen, and what he knows, and also what he hopes for the future. Thanks for joining us for this very special episode of The (Im)partial Church.
Gerard: Hey, y'all. I'm Gerard.
Professor Janine Bolling: And I'm Janine.
Gerard: I'm the big brother.
Janine: But I'm the older sister, and we're brother and sister in Christ.
Gerard: We grew up in Brooklyn, New York.
Janine: I'm still living in Brooklyn, but I serve in the Bronx.
Gerard: I'm a professor at Concordia University in Texas and a pastor at a congregation in St. Louis.
Janine: It's been said Sunday morning is the most segregated time in America.
Gerard: Issues with race and cultures still plague our communities and our churches.
Janine: But what can we do about it? Should we see color?
Gerard: Or be colorblind?
Janine: What's our responsibility in bringing about unity in our neighborhoods and in our church pews?
Gerard: It's a delicate topic, but one we must tackle with grace.
Janine: So pull up your chair to the table as we bring Jesus to the center of this conversation of—
Gerard: The (Im)partial Church.
Gerard: We told you that this season, we'd be hearing from some subject matter experts.
Janine: The issues of racism and prejudice can be tense, and it's tough to know how to start a conversation. Our guest today has been working in this space for over a decade. Churches across the country have enlisted him to help navigate what it means to become healthy Christian communities where diversity thrives and God is glorified.
Gerard: But we'll let him tell you more about himself.
Pastor J. T. Thomas: I am a fifth-generation preacher's kid and grew up in North Carolina. Have been on a fantastic journey with the Lord as, first of all, a missionary here in America, domestic missionary that then has kind of taken on many forms over the years, from inner-city gang intervention to now full-time racial reconciliation, as well as the normal stewardship of pastoral work. But I'm blessed to have been married now for 17 years. I have an 11-year-old daughter, so it's just been quite a journey of formation, becoming more like Christ as I learned how to love my family well, love the people that I lead, and be a faithful disciple of Jesus in the process.
Civil righteousness really was a message first that became a movement, and then the movement demanded that we organize and become an organization. But our mission is reconciliation and restorative justice through spiritual, cultural, and economic renewal. And essentially what we're doing is helping the body of Christ steward the ministry of reconciliation that Jesus passed down to us through this Gospel. And obviously, the times demand that there be a clear witness for the Gospel. How do we center Jesus and exalt Him above the political polarization and, obviously, the historic racial division and dissension that has kind of plagued the human condition? So, we are leading this movement of what we call holy activism, prayer-fueled petition, standing against the things that hinder us from loving one another rightly as we're called to as the people of God.
I think that everyone knows this topic comes with great costs. I think there's a lot of fear in the church, meaning there's a sense, yeah, we should lead in this, but many don't even know where to start. Many are afraid. The cost of speaking on these types of issues would be too great because a topic like this is so deeply incendiary. I think many people have found that if they say anything, they'll be consequences, and if they don't say anything, they'll be consequences. And so, because of the toxicity of where our culture has gotten with this conversation, many are paralyzed into doing nothing. I feel what many have been longing for is a very clear path forward beyond just the political engagement, which political and legislative pursuits are important, but they cannot represent and do not represent the totality of the healing that we need in our nation and in the nations.
Janine: And for Pastor J. T., the church is the perfect place to begin. Listen as he explains the process that he and Civil Righteousness used to help the church see her role in reconciliation work.
Pastor J. T. Thomas: The first thing is we seek to create spaces where truth-telling can happen. This Gospel is ultimately very confrontational. There's a value. There's an ethic in the Gospel of acknowledgement, acknowledge your sin, confess it to one another that you may be healed. Be merciful with one another.
The church should be, if any space in the world, the body of Christ should be the place where we can get raw; we can get real; we can have really tough conversations; we can be confronted; we can allow the Word of God to correct us. It should be a place where we can actually come and get offended, but know that the Bible doesn't allow us to stay offended, right? I think that's the work that we've really begun to curate, is "How do we empower believers? How do we empower churches? How do we empower small groups to curate these environments where people can come, where they can get real, can be heard, we're listening, we're learning, lament can happen. But then we can move past lament and we can move into a place of mediation, negotiation, innovation, and implementation?"
What do I mean by that? What I mean is that everyone has some sort of brokenness that we're coming to the table with. So we start on level ground because we know that we're all broken and in need of healing, right? We're in need of a Savior. So we come in humility to the table, and then we create a space for bidirectional listening. It's not just listening to Black folks, not just listening to White folks, but hey, we all have something to bring to the table. But we want to get to the truth as ugly as it is, and knowing that Emmanuel, God is with us even in the ugliest places, ugliest parts of our story. If we can get people to a place of being able to find God even in the darkest parts, in the painful places, we know that the Holy Spirit is the Counselor; He is the Mediator. And Jesus is the Mediator of a new covenant, so then we mediate the conflict. We invite the Lord to help us find one another and find Him in the midst of the hard conversations, and then move from that place into negotiation.
What changes need to happen for us to live or walk differently? What do I need to give up? What do you need to give up in order that we might find agreement or walk together? Then, from negotiation into innovation, what can we do, not just what can we do together that we can't do apart? That is one question, but who can we be together that we cannot be apart? Who can we be? Then, we move from innovation into implementation. Let's go and reform our cities. Let's reform our culture. Let's reform our communities. Let's reform our schools, our churches, and let's be a people who are proactively creating a more righteous and just society versus just responding and reacting to what's happening in culture.
Gerard: This is an issue of righteousness. Racism and prejudice are a big deal. They're actively against God's plan for His people. And as His church, we must be the kind of people who champion a path forward.
Janine: Later on in this season, we're going to be talking about the ways that culture influences us to act outside of our identity in Christ. When Pastor J. T. Talks about reform, he means a return to God's will. It's more than just being nice to one another. He thinks prejudice is an offense against God Himself.
Pastor J. T. Thomas: I think it goes back to what we were speaking of earlier in considering the issue of the Imago Dei, the image of God within man. Jesus said, "Don't be alarmed if they reject you. It was Me that they rejected first." And so, if we consider that racism is empowered resistance to the image of God in man, it's the rejection of God Himself. I think that really puts us at the root of the sin issue. In fact, in 1 John 4, it says, "How can you love God whom you can't see if you cannot love your brother who you can see?" He actually ties your faith, your ability to even call yourself a believer in God, is directly rooted to your capacity to love your fellow man. And so, if we're rejecting one another who we can see, that in and of itself is an indication of our inability to fully engage our hearts and love for Jesus. And so, I think that rejection of God and, therefore, that rejection of the love of God, if you do not have love, you do not have God, is what that passage in 1 John 4 says. And so, I think the lack of love is what produces systems of destruction, systems of oppression, systems of extermination, annihilation.
We can go throughout history and see what the rejection of the image of God in other peoples has done to inform wars and genocide and all sorts of atrocities in the human experience. So I say that to say that it's critical that we understand that racism is not just a political issue; it's not just a sociological issue; it is indeed a central theological issue. It's a Gospel reality that informs not only our horizontal relationship with man, but our vertical relationship with God.
Gerard: It's possible that we miss this, our brothers and sisters in Christ, even the ones who look different are the very image of God. That's like the ultimate "handle with care" stamp.
Janine: Absolutely. When we think about the way we treat others from that perspective, it changes everything. Honestly, it kind of reminds me of those people who protest various issues by throwing food at works of art or the bloody people outside. I mean, sure, we probably should be a bit more cautious with our use of fossil fuels, but what did Rembrandt do to you, you know? When we harm other image-bearers, we actually are insulting the artist as well.
Gerard: Ooh, yikes. And that raises the stakes a little bit. But even in the midst of all of this, Pastor J. T. is hopeful that God will heal his church.
Pastor J. T. Thomas: One of the things that really makes me hopeful is that I see in Ephesians 4 this promise that we are actually going to come to a mature person in Christ. There's the fullness of Christ is being established in us, and I don't know how. Only God can do it. But somehow we are going to come to a unity of the faith. In Matthew 24, it says that before Jesus' return, nation will rise against nation there. In other words, we are going to see increasing ethnic hostility in the world.
Ethnic and tribal conflicts are not going to decrease. They're going to increase. However, one of the distinctions is He will have a unified, mature, pure, and spotless bride, a pure and spotless church. So, I'm hopeful that we are going to cast off these sins that easily entangle all of the "isms" that have caused schisms, from racism to sexisms to—you name all the isms, right? And we're good at causing schisms and throwing at walls, but Jesus has destroyed the dividing wall of hostility. And I see in the struggle and in the pain of our time and in the chaos and the perplexity of our times, I'm beginning to see a real reach for maturity in the love of God. I'm seeing pastors and believers and congregations and housewives and sons, and I'm seeing people across the board that are saying, "There has to be a solution. There has to be more."
I believe that "It's the glory of God to conceal a matter, but it's the glory of kings to search it out." That's Proverbs 25:22. And so, I know that as the church is collectively and corporately reaching for greater understanding and asking the Father for help. He hears the cries of the week, and He hears and is answering, I think, the groans of our generation So I'm excited because I know that the louder the groan, the greater the manifestation of the response from heaven. And we need heaven's help in this time. I believe that even this podcast and conversations like this that are happening around the country are part of kind of the manifestation of heaven, helping us rise above where we've been and step into all that we've been created to be.
Janine: I like that. I don't know about you, Gerard, but after that interview, I feel hopeful, too.
Gerard: Yeah, me too. If you've been listening to this podcast and you want to be a part of the solution, thank you for listening. Please stick around as we dive more into the topic of racial reconciliation and impartiality this season.
Janine: A special thanks to Pastor J. T. for sharing his insights with us. You can find out more about him and his organization at https://civilrighteousness.org/
Gerard: We'll learn more about that and other things as you join us next week, so we can discuss important racial issues and why we're tackling these issues in the first place. It's back to the research, so that we can name the problem and find a solution. That's next week on The (Im)partial Church.